Hi everybody, welcome back to The Artist Tao. You're here with Jenny and Sean Starr. And today we're going to talk about the next principle of The Artist Tao and that is to be innovative. So embrace technology and build an audience. The greatest achievement of any artist is to communicate their ideas clearly. Figure out where you can best be heard.
So what do you think about that?
Well, that's kind of interesting, you know, looking back on writing that originally the first draft in 2006. And that really hasn't changed. You know, all the technology has changed and the ways of communicating have changed and advanced. But the principle to me is the same that, essentially what we're doing right now is getting our ideas and thoughts and creative projects out there in front of people and engaging with people.
Yeah. Well, that last part about figuring out where you can best be heard. I feel like, let's just say, for instance, if you were only a painter, even in this day and age, I think you'd still have to cross all the mediums though. I think you'd have to have shorts and podcasts maybe or something like Instagram, like it has to cross all the.
Yeah, I, you know, it's a fine line because I, I know for myself, I don't like engaging on social media. Um, I do it because it's, it's also tied in with our, our, our business of the work that we do in the studio and things like that. But I'm not, I don't really feel like social media is necessarily a key component of that. As much as...just putting your ideas out there in formats that can expand on what your projects are maybe. So for instance, if you're a painter, engaging people in different ways than just photos of your paintings and just figuring out in an innovative way what that is for you.
Yeah, I think that's where sometimes even like I get stuck in thinking like, oh, it's only going to be on Facebook or you should do Instagram or I'm thinking all these mainstream things and you're thinking about way out of the box, like different ideas of cross promotion or something like that.
Yeah, not even cross promotion. It's just how can you take something to innovate, communicating with people and turn that into its own creative element of what you do. And so that's why, you know, when we were talking about doing this idea of, you know, the book out, the first edition of the book went really widespread and got a lot of popularity. And...The idea of like, well, maybe when we republish this expanding on those ideas through podcasts, to me it was like, okay, that's kind of an extension of the book and an ability to like, um, expound further on these ideas. So that to me is really appealing. Whereas, um, you know, if we were just sitting there posting, you know, Hey, check out our book, check out our book on Facebook and Instagram and all of that. To me, that's, I don't know, it feels kind of gross, but, I mean, everybody's got their own way of how they wanna reach out to people. But to me, I like the idea of... expanding the communication. So in this case, the communication was writing the words of the book and then you took the photos here in the studio to expand visually on those words. And now we're doing this podcast as a way to expand, you know, further ideas about that writing, you know, so to me, it's just like an extension, but at the same time, it's being innovative and using you know, different tools and technologies as a way to engage with people on that core creative work, which was, you know, the artist style book.
Was podcasting even like when you first published the book, was that even something, did you have coffee with a sign painter then or? No, I don't know when that, you know, I jumped in with coffee with a sign painter in, gosh, I think that was 2013, the first episode. And podcasting was just really starting to become widespread enough that people kind of knew how to access it. But I don't really know the history of podcasting enough to know when people started really doing it and all of that. But...
So when you were writing the book and you wrote this principle about being innovative, what were your thoughts at that point about being innovative at that particular moment in time?
I don't know, it seems like it's so long ago. Yeah, well, I mean, technology -wise, it seems like an ancient world. Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, really, publishing the book was the first edition of this book was, part of that idea because I was doing the large scale abstract paintings at that time. And then I had revived my sign painting business and everything else. And the book was kind of a way to, I always enjoyed writing. So it was like, well, I can maybe put this out there and communicate some of those ideas in a different way. So yeah, I guess, you know, social media was, you know, really taking hold around 2006, seven, eight. But, you know, back then it was, you know, MySpace. And then everybody jumped on board to Facebook. But I never, you know, I always had a presence on social media, but I always kind of felt like, like that was just a really low effort way to me of, um, I mean, you can communicate, but how creative can you really be? Now you could share something on there that you've created podcast video, you know, whatever. And that's a whole different thing because, you know, if you put the creative effort into, you know, even a short video, like, then you're just using that mechanism for people to access that.
But, you know, sitting there posting and I don't know, everybody's different. I just never really liked social media and I still don't. But, you know, in today's world, you have to participate in it currently to, you know, have any kind of relevance, which I don't, I question even that. I don't even know if it's really means anything anymore.
Yeah. And this part where you say the greatest achievement of any artist is to communicate their ideas clearly. Yeah. So would that mean even with, even with the, just the expression of their art, whether it's painting or sculpture or something that it be expressed clearly through the piece, or are you saying like more literally to be able to communicate their ideas through different mediums or something like that?
Yeah. I think that I'm really more alluding to like, um, communicating your ideas. I mean, even a hand -painted sign, yes, you're creating some form of advertising and wanting people to engage with it, but your idea of how you do that may be very complex of creating an aesthetic through that painted work. And the same with a painting or written word, anything is...
You go into it with an idea that you're trying to, it's kind of like this esoteric language, I feel. Like you've got this like esoteric language that's running in your own head and you want to communicate and share that with other people. And the more clearly you can do that, then you see this, like there's these moments where you see that other people are picking up on it. And that's when you get really juiced up and you're like, oh, okay, wow. So they're understanding what I'm doing. And then there's other times where it totally falls flat, where totally makes sense to you. You've got this totally dialed in concept and then you put it together and people look at it and they either just go, huh, don't get it. Or they get a completely different impression, which to you is incorrect because that's not what you were trying to communicate.
And so the more clearly you can communicate those ideas, I feel that that's when you really start tapping into, okay, you've refined your message, you've refined your art, and you're really cutting through and people are getting it. Yeah, it's almost like you really are from what you're in your brain, you want to put down on paper or something, you're feeling at that point. That's the art really is to sort of refine it so it's clear at the get -go. Yeah, I think so. And... It's a really difficult thing to do. And there's a lot of other principles that I touch on in the book that I think all those things combined help get you there. But if you're painting paintings or making music or whatever it is that you're doing and no one's getting it, I don't want to say you have to step back because there's artists historically that no one really got them until after the fact. I mean, I think that's the case with Van Gogh from what I've read is, you know, I'm remembering correctly, he didn't sell any paintings, even though his brother was an art dealer, he didn't sell any paintings during his lifetime and everybody kind of thought he was nuts. But I mean, in my mind, it's still, that's the end goal is you're trying to make that connection with people and getting them to understand.
This language that's operating in your head. Is that frustrating for you? If you feel like, is it like an expectation that somebody will understand it? Like, do you get disappointed or do you have to like really step out of not wanting somebody to have a certain type of reaction? Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, I, it definitely can be. And what I've learned to do over time that I think is, uh, something I definitely.
Would recommend to people to look at is you have to get into this routine of just moving forward. And you can't really get into the head space of like, wow, that didn't land with people or wow, I don't know if people really got that or, because then you get in this loop of like pair being paralyzed and you're not really creating, you're just so wrapped up in trying to analyze, why didn't people get my idea better? Whereas if you just get in this habit of complete the project and then do what you're going to do to communicate that to people and being innovative using technology to like, okay, this is what I did. And then immediately move on to the next thing. Like just complete it, put it out there, do everything you can do. And it's going to do what it's going to do. It's either going to connect, it's going to connect on a large scale or a small scale. It won't connect at all. And if you don't like just keep running to the next idea and how you're going to express that idea, you could get stuck there for years. And I've met those artists who've, you know, they're still swirling in, project they did 10 years ago and they're just stuck there and it's because they're in their head as opposed to just being like, I'm going to take the information that I got from this one and roll it into the next one and just try to connect on the next one as well.
Is that like a practice, like a muscle?
I think it is because you really have to tame your mind, you know, because you've got all of this feedback coming from all these different sources, especially, I think maybe this is why my distaste, if you will, of social media is because I really feel like social media hijacks the natural process to where, you know, people can get so consumed with Oh, did anyone like it? And how many people viewed my thing and all of this other stuff that you're, you're getting stuck in that loop instead of just moving forward and refining your work and refining your message and improving because you're, you're caught in the loop of like, well, yeah, but what are people thinking and how many people shared it and clicked it and all that stuff. I just think that's really unhealthy and counterproductive. To grow as an artist, not just to like, oh, I made something, what do people think? It's like, you really should be focused on how do I grow and mature as an artist. And the part about figure out where you can be best heard.
Mm -hmm. Like would that be like choose your lane and like do it really well or? No, on that one, it was more about, Um, You've, we've all got these creative people, if they can really unleash themselves, tend to be creative in just about everything they touch, I've noticed. And there are certain things that are just this natural fit that you're just like, bam, you know, it's instinctively just come so easy to a person. And that's where I think a person can be, you know, quote unquote best heard. So, you know, I've met, for instance, virtually every sign painter I know is also a musician. I've known very few that weren't also a musician. They might be just a mediocre musician and a great sign painter or vice versa. And so it's just where you best heard, like, you know.
You might be painting signs to pay the bills every day so that you can go out in the evening and play your music or, you know, maybe you're just fantastic musician and, you know, the sign painting is something you're doing because you really enjoy the process of, you know, expressing yourself with letters. So that, that figure out where you, where you can best be heard is really like speaking to somebody who's a creative and maybe who does painting, sculpture, music, and maybe one of those is a little bit more their lane. One is more, maybe they're just like the most amazing sculptor. And so they should really lean into that is kind of what I'm reading in from that last one. That's what experience has told me. Others might disagree with it, but that's how, that's what I think.
Yeah. Yeah, be innovative. It's, yeah, it's interesting. Cause I, when we were talking a little bit about when the book first came out and the tools that you had available to, you know, put it online or, or I don't even, did you even put it on Facebook or anything?
No, well, I mean, back then everything was being promoted, you know, through social media, like MySpace and all of that. So, you know, we were using those tools to promote it, obviously, in front of your followers, hey, the book's out now, you can go get it at whatever bookstores and stuff like that. But yeah, all of that technology has changed so much. And again, I just have never really liked social media. I've never been social on social media, put it that way.
I've always posted projects and, you know, posted notice, you know, hey, I'm going to be doing this thing, you know, this public thing, come on out kind of stuff. I've used it in that sense, but like the whole concept of like groups and, you know, sharing stuff. And I just, it's never been something I've really wanted to do.
Yeah. Maybe the innovative part is leaning more into, uh, you know, communicating with people one -on -one doing things in small groups like in literal small groups, not Facebook groups.
That's my preference. I don't think it's a bad thing if people want to do that. It's just not something I've really been interested in doing. Well, as the be innovative part of this principle, I mean, for people who maybe have only ever done Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, that might be for them super innovative to start to...
Yeah, yeah. That's a great point is...
You know, if you grew up with social media and you know, you've been very heavily involved in it, then in that case, being innovative could mean, you know, maybe setting up an in -person thing where you can connect with people and, you know, get them to engage with your work in one way or another that's not on a digital platform. In my case, it was, um, what can I create that's shared through a digital platform that could elaborate, if you will, on some of these other projects?
So yeah, that's a good point that you're making is mix it up. Yeah. And it's just interesting to be here in 2024 because I think when you first bought the book out, you were coming from doing in -person events doing things in front of groups of people doing gallery openings. So your crossover was going into a digital space. To participate in a digital way and then people that are coming up in a younger set than I was back then, it may be the opposite. Yeah, it's interesting, right? Yeah. Yeah, so we got to be innovative. Thinking out of the box, I think, too, to run like, thinking about ideas and writing them down because you never know what really will be the best idea. I would say don't sell somebody's idea short.
Yeah, and thoughts are things. They're living, breathing things. And so you can develop that thought into something tangible in the world. I mean, that's what creativity is, is you have this spark of an idea and you're like, maybe if I bolt this, idea into this idea and glue this to it, it'll become this. And then that's the communication part is you've got this concept and then you're wanting to put that out there and share that with people and be like, Hey, what if we looked at this or thought of this in this way?
Yeah. Be innovative, embrace technology and build an audience.
The greatest achievement of any artist is to communicate their ideas clearly. Figure out where you can best be heard.
Thanks for joining us, everybody. Thank you. See you next time.