Transcript of the episode
Welcome everyone to the Artist Tao podcast. You're here with Jenny and Sean Starr. Today we're going to be going over principle number two from the Artist Tao, which is in its new printing, second edition. The second principle is understand your role. Artists are the heart of the community. Although small, this is the part of the community that ignites change. So, understand your role. What does that mean? And can you remember when this one kind of coalesced for you?
Yeah, this one was more based on conversations with other artists. And it's... I don't know if it's looked at enough of, you know, moving the needle, whether it's culture or just ideas or consciousness or whatever you wanna look at, the underlying force seems to always be creativity. When we're stuck in a routine or a status quo, we tend to just kind of regurgitate the same ideas over and over and over. And then someone comes along creatively, whether, you know, define that as an artist, however you will, but someone comes along with an idea and a way of expressing that idea that's different and it can kind of like really shift the paradigm. So that's kind of the idea behind that is understanding the role of what you're doing. Like within the community.
Cause you have understand your role and then it's like artists are the heart of the community. That's the second line. So as an artist, understanding your role within your community.
Yeah. I mean, community in the sense of like the larger community that we're all a part of, which is humanity. Um, you know, there, there, if you look at it like a body, there's all these different functioning parts and they all do different things. I've, I've said for years, you know, the world needs artists and accountants, because like artists can create cool things, but you need an accountant or the artists all go broke. So it's just, yeah, just recognizing that like that, that, that statement of the heart of the community, it is the, you're, you're creating things that can touch the heart that can change the world. And, you know, we hear things like that and they sound a little cheesy and lofty and things, but it is true. I mean, it's historically true that, we've all been the recipients of it. We've all read a book or saw a movie or heard a song or saw a painting and it shifted things for us. It kind of shook us up and got us to think about something differently. It's especially true in the artistic pursuit of writing. Somebody can write out, an idea that maybe you've heard before, but write it in a different way where it touches your heart and it changes you. And so if you can recognize that, I feel, then... you can recognize the importance of what you're doing, which can get you through those periods of time where you get discouraged or you get disillusioned or you feel like, you know, it's what's the point of even doing this is there will come a time when people engage with your work. And when you see that and you experience it, and for those of us who have, it's like a really humbling experience when you see that something that you've created really, affects someone and gets them out of that box and gets them thinking differently. Like you realize how powerful it is and it's humbling because it's larger than you.
And so when, when was there, was there a certain point when you felt that, you know, you, you had a better understanding of what your role is? I think it's always evolving. Um, you know, um. You know, when we went to Nepal to start filming the documentary, I don't think that any of us really understood how that was gonna all play out and how that was gonna really resonate with anyone and affect anything. And once we started doing screenings, it was like, oh wow, this is actually really affecting people. They're very moved. We had people come up to us crying, you know, um, actually, I think I'm understanding something in a different way.
What you just said, cause you're saying understand your role, meaning as an artist, understand your role as an artist in the collective. Like you're saying, like as a, you're part of the heart of the community that you ignite change so that every all artists, that's, that's their role. You're saying, is that what you're saying? Like that's your role as an artist?
Yes, that's exactly what the intention is of the statement is that by putting yourself in a position that you are creating whatever it is that you're doing, that evolves and takes a life on of its own once you've put it out into the world. And that thing, if it's created from a pure place and intention within yourself, that literally can, will, and does change the world.
That's kind of a big, this is a big principle, I feel like. You know, to, if you're, if, I don't know, let's just say somebody's 13 and they're deciding, like, they really like to create all things, art, paintings, sculpture. And that's a big, I feel like this is a big principle to understand that you are, you will affect change in that way, that there's the potential of that igniting fire, that igniting change in somebody or that touching somebody's heart that you may not even ever meet actually.
Yeah. I mean, and there's, there's, you know, there's varying degrees of it, obviously, but like, look at, look at someone like John Lennon with his song, Imagine, how many people did that song shift some kind of paradigm in their head? I picked that one because I think that's, I read on a list years ago, I think that's one of those songs that a lot of people list as one of the top 10 songs that made them think differently or something. I'd have to look it up, but it's something I came across maybe 10, 15 years ago.
But that's a great example of like now granted, when you look at it on the spectrum, he's somebody who had a humongous effect on millions of people and still does, even though he's gone. It's like his music is still affecting change, still touching hearts. And you just, I feel it's important to understand that that's the pool you're stepping into is, you may be the person that affects huge change, you may affect small change, you may only change one person. But that's a very powerful thing to be able to do and meaningful thing to do. Yeah, I mean, that's touching somebody in a way where it opens them up and it touches their heart is really such an intimate thing. And I feel like, When you do understand your role as an artist, in this context, we're saying that as an artist, we understand, one understands their role, that they potentially will touch somebody's heart. I mean, I feel like that's kind of amazing. And for it to come from that pureness of your intention, right? You're not trying to, it's like a difference of like, I'm doing this because I want to touch somebody's heart. It's really, you've got to come from a place of like your own heart to express your own heart. Yeah, and that's for sure because if the intention isn't pure, you're never gonna touch anybody's heart. So, you can't get into this space either where it's like, I'm gonna go change the world, because the world doesn't change that way. The world changes from you reaching down deep and giving a pure expression and not caring whether that changes the world or not. It just, it might, and it might on a large scale and it might on a very small scale. And in my observation, that scale may be different, but if it's a, if it's of pure intention and it's really genuine, it will affect change in someone's life.
Have you had experiences of both sides of the coin, understanding where that inspiration comes from inside of you, where it's genuine, like God speaking through you, as opposed to the other side of the coin of where you've been like, I'm going to do this and this is going to be the thing that changes something. Does that make sense?
Yeah, I think everybody knows whether they're willing to admit it or not something different, but everybody knows when it's that just you're in the zone and it's just a pure thing and you just like you, you are loving whatever you're working on and you just really want to bring it into the world versus the minute you start scheming and thinking, well, if I make this change, that's a little bit more of a popular thing and people are gonna respond to it this way. The minute that you start in with that, then you might as well just toss it in the trash and start over.
It's kind of interesting, like coming off the first principle about not being defined by stereotypes. So it's kind of like the same, not the same, but it's adding onto that, right? So you understand your role, but you still can't just be falling into line with what society wants you just what's trending or something like that.
It's a big complicated mess. You've got all of these things and that's why I called them the 44 principles is these are all just kind of floating out there and they year after year appear to be true to me. But yeah, you've got to juggle all this stuff because...
Some of it might even seem counterintuitive, but it's still true. So how does meditation come into play? Do you feel like before meditation there was sort of one way of being and then when you started meditating that might have helped you ground yourself more in what your role is and understanding that?
I don't know. I don't know that I want to get too much into that because that's kind of a really personal thing to each person. I can give you my experience with it. That was major game changer for me as an artist was it's allowed me to get much more real with myself and much more in tune with the work that I do. But I mean, everyone's going to have their own techniques of how they get there, I suppose. I don't want to get too much into that.
Well, I'm just asking about like, was there a definite like difference did you find between pre -meditation and post -meditation.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Yeah, artists are the heart of community.
You think because most, because as an artist, you think out of the box as the heart of the community, or do you feel like the more tapped in you are to your creativity, perhaps you're maybe have maybe more sensitive?
I don't know about that because, um, you know, over the years I've crossed paths with so many, you know, different people doing different things and have different temperaments. The temperament of a musician is, in my observation, has been very different than a painter or a sculptor or a writer. Everyone's kind of got their own engine running in the background.
And I... I mean, more like, are you better able to, you think, perceive as somebody who's super creative, in my opinion, like, do you feel that you can perceive things maybe? In a way, maybe that's somebody that doesn't necessarily utilize creative energy the same way you do.
Don't know. It's that the whole nurture versus nature thing, I think, of like, how do you separate it? Does a person have certain traits because they've pursued creativity or do they have certain traits because that's how they're wired and so they were drawn to be creative? I don't really know.
It seems to be that people that are on the creative path are much more interested in exploring things about themselves and how they express themselves than other people, but that only may be observable because they're creating things and so you look at them through a different lens.
Yeah, so I would think as the heart of the community, I guess I'm thinking on a smaller scale, like even in our community, you know, like being the, like as somebody who invokes change just even on a community level, like where everybody lives, you know, where you live in your actual community, not necessarily like humanity community.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, we've got what? 980 some people here. And there's people here doing different things. There's people running the coffee shop here in town. There's people on the ranches and farms around us. They're doing that. Like everybody, and again, on the surface, it might sound a little cheesy. You're the heart of the community, but it's more literal.
Like if you look at it more like a body of there's all of these people in your community contributing something and what you're contributing as an artist, again, if it comes from that pure place can ignite change. And again, that might only be one person. A couple of years ago, there was that artist, Kathy, that was teaching kids how to paint next door. And she brought in the one kid that day, he's like 10 years old or something. And he's just looking around with his eyes huge and everything. And to us, it was just like, oh cool, yeah, come on in and we'll show them around and everything. But to that kid, you don't know what that's gonna mean down the road. I've had those experiences, I think I shared with you, when I was, in my early twenties and I had moved from Texas up to Seattle. I'm downtown Seattle and I'm watching Dale Chihuly, the glass guy, glass artist, and he's got his little studio downtown Seattle and he's got paint all splattered over him and he's spraying these glass panels with this colored dye or ink or something. I just stood there, just dumbfounded. I'd come from South Texas and everything I knew about like quote unquote real artists was books and movies. Like I'd never met or seen one in my entire life. And there's this guy with an eye patch making this fantastic glasswork and I'm able to stand there in a studio and watch him work. And that, that changed so much for me because it, it then was like brought into the realm of possibility that, Oh, this could be done. I could pursue this and make this my life and my livelihood somehow.
So that's, is that kind of when you felt like really that you could do that? When you saw Dale out there doing his thing in Seattle?
I think it's, you know, all these things compound. I don't think it's a single moment where it's like, aha, you know, but it definitely was a milestone of like, just kind of stopped me in my tracks of like, okay.
So I did my art show a couple years prior in San Antonio in this little coffee shop and was dabbling in all of that, like, well, maybe I could do this thing. But then seeing him, and I had never heard of him before that. And then you're hearing comments around you of people standing who are watching and they're like, oh, wow, that's Dale Chihuly. And you're like.
So, okay, so this guy, he's a known entity. He's doing this fantastic work. He's downtown. He's opened up his studio so that people can come in and watch him work. Like it just, a lot of things fell in place of like, okay, that's possible. You know, I already knew it was possible, you know, from working in my dad's shop that like, you could pay the rent and the electric bill and buy groceries by putting paint in the trunk of the car and driving out to West Texas and custom painting, you know, some rich guy's suburban. Like I was like, okay, you can do that, but I don't know if you could like make paintings or do something else. I don't know how that could get done. And then I saw him and was like, okay, it's definitely possible. I still no clue how to turn that into a way of supporting myself, but I knew it was possible.
And this might be a, not related to the glass, but was, when you were in Seattle, was that the first time that you were doing those large scale abstract paintings or were you doing that in Texas too?
No, I started that up in Seattle. And then when I moved back to Texas, continued and then it wasn't until 2005, that that's when I did a project at the University of Washington in Tacoma and painted a huge, huge 24 foot long abstract painting to the music of the Smiths and Morrissey. And again, it was probably influenced by Chihuly because that whole concept came about of like, I want people to come in and be able to watch me work.
And I'm sure that's where that came from. And so, you know, during that whole time, that whole week of painting, you know, people were able to come in and they could sit down and they'd watch and I'd sit there painting the Morrissey and the Smiths. And, you know, that all made sense to me. I don't know how much sense it made to anyone else, but I was having the time of my life. But that was the first time I really had stepped into I want to see what I can do with this and I want to kind of take this out into the world and let people engage with it and see what happens.
Yeah. Yeah. I love those big pieces. I think they're great. Thanks. Do you prefer like if you were going to paint a ball, I know that you just did the Buddha painting not too long ago. Do you prefer the larger scale?
Yeah, I seem to. And, um, it's a real pain in the neck because then you've got these huge paintings to contend with. And, you know, whether you're having to transport them to show them or you're like keeping them as inventory or whatever, you've got these huge things to deal with, but I do like the size of it. And I think that's, um, translated, you know, even into, you know, some of the sign painting installation stuff I've done like those projects I did for the Dallas farmers market, you know, those are eight foot by 24 foot each, you know, two of those. And, you know, I just love that big scale. Like it's, you know, years ago I saw, I was on a trip up to Cleveland, I believe it was, and I was in a museum and I saw one, I don't remember if it was one or if they had several, but it was, Monet's water lilies. Oh yeah. Those are huge.
Really?
Yeah.
Gosh, I don't remember them being so big, but. Well, that's the way I remember it. Now you're making me question. I might have to look it up. But from what I remember, they were huge. And I just remembered it like my jaw dropping. But I could be mixing it up with something else. Now I got to fact check myself.
No, I doubt it. You're probably right. You're probably right. Yeah. Yeah, I like the large scale. I like the large scale paintings that you do.
Yeah, and I think it also, you know, when I was younger, I was really charged up by Jackson Pollock, you know, and a couple of years ago when we were up in New York, we went by, he showed me where his studio was, which was like a little mini mecha trip for me. But, you know, the scale of what he did was just like really great to me too, of just like, wow, like covering a whole wall.
Yeah, we should try to get that was, I guess, during the winter. I don't think they were open, but we should try to get there in the summertime or something when it's open so you can see the workshop. You know, it's pretty cool.
Yeah.
Well, that is principle number two. Principle number two. Understand your role. Yeah. So thank you everybody for coming to see us again. See you next week. See you next time.